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Help needed on ground work
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David Peno
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2011 1:33 pm Posts: 43 Location: Centreville,VA USA
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 Help needed on ground work
I have started to make ground work for my models, nothing to drastic yet but just simple bases with mud, earth etc. I am using a thin plywood base with celuclay on top. The first time I used waxed paper to prevent the wood from warping but I am looking for a better way to protect the wood. The wood base will then be placed in a case. Anyone have any ideas on how to protect the wood from warping from contact with the wet celuclay? I was thinking about just painting it but I am not sure if it will work well.
Dave Peno
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| Tue Apr 03, 2012 1:39 pm |
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Vinnie Branigan
Model Armour Founder
Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2009 10:33 am Posts: 16000 Location: Runcorn, Cheshire
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 Re: Help needed on ground work
Hi David,
Unless you're using really sopping wet Celluclay, I wouldn't have thought it would warp? Have you actually experienced warping yet?
Vinnie
_________________
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| Tue Apr 03, 2012 1:46 pm |
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Matt Parvis
Site Contributor
Joined: Sat May 16, 2009 7:11 pm Posts: 3150 Location: Due north of Washington DC in Maryland
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 Re: Help needed on ground work.
David, polyurethane sealers should do the job. Alternatively, you can wrap the wood in cling film and pour the celluclay over that. Let it set, remove the cling film, and glue the celluclay base down. That method is nice because it keeps the wood nice and clean. This also helps with the shrinking issues you get with celluclay, as it allows it to shrink without cracking as much.
Matt
_________________ We won't bring the muskets, we won't cause the pain, But we're good for some headaches, and tough to clean stains.
"Modern Pirates" by Barleyjuice
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| Tue Apr 03, 2012 1:50 pm |
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Jan Persson
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 1:01 pm Posts: 547
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 Re: Help needed on ground work.
Matt Parvis wrote: David, polyurethane sealers should do the job. Alternatively, you can wrap the wood in cling film and pour the celluclay over that. Let it set, remove the cling film, and glue the celluclay base down. That method is nice because it keeps the wood nice and clean. This also helps with the shrinking issues you get with celluclay, as it allows it to shrink without cracking as much.
Matt Excellent idea 
_________________ I am not young enough to know everything - Oscar Wilde
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| Tue Apr 03, 2012 1:52 pm |
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Vinnie Branigan
Model Armour Founder
Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2009 10:33 am Posts: 16000 Location: Runcorn, Cheshire
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 Re: Help needed on ground work
Alternatively....use something else. I hate the stuff. Gave a big bag to the window cleaner.  Vinnie
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| Tue Apr 03, 2012 1:56 pm |
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David Peno
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2011 1:33 pm Posts: 43 Location: Centreville,VA USA
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 Re: Help needed on ground work
Vinnie Branigan wrote: Alternatively....use something else. I hate the stuff. Gave a big bag to the window cleaner.  Vinnie So....what do you suggest? I am always open to new ideas and a better way to do things. Dave
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| Tue Apr 03, 2012 5:06 pm |
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Vinnie Branigan
Model Armour Founder
Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2009 10:33 am Posts: 16000 Location: Runcorn, Cheshire
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 Re: Help needed on ground work
These days I just use Polyfilla.  *(Wall spackle I think you call it?) On my wooden plinth I'll use a strip of paper about 10 to 15cm wide to form shuttering, drive a couple of screws into the base but leave them projecting 5mm, then fill with Polyfilla. The screws make sure it stays put and will never come off. If differnet levels or mounds are wanted, I'll build them up with small blocks of expanded polystyrene before using the Polyfilla. A couple of drop of acrylic paint can also be added to the Polyfilla when mixing it up to add colour, so that if its ever chipped in future, you don't get bright, white spots where it's uncovered. Vinnie
_________________
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| Tue Apr 03, 2012 6:03 pm |
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UAEJohnny
Site Contributor
Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 10:15 pm Posts: 2067 Location: Denver, Colorado
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 Re: Help needed on ground work
David, What kind of scenery are you building? Is it hilly and mountainous with rock outcroppings or smooth grassland? Are there gullies and washes with water or just a simple asphalt road? Each of these types of terrain will determine which material is the easiest or best to use. I've also stopped using Celluclay in favor of other materials like Vinnie's drywall filler (Spackle), tile mastic/tile grout, acrylic caulk, plaster, or even torn-up newspaper and white glue. Celluclay good: Looks like Earth, easy to color with any type of paint, slightly flexible once dry, non-toxic. Celluclay bad: It's wet and can ruin your substrate, shrinkage/cracks, long dry times if applied thicker than about 1/2", made from wood and can actually grow mold or fungus if allowed to stay wet for more than a few days. If you decide to use Celluclay, consider changing the substrate to something unaffected by water. Have a look at the blue or pink insulating foam sold at your local Home Depot. The 2" thickness is just about perfect for small elevation changes and low spots like bomb craters or creek beds. You can carve the foam with any serrated kitchen knife (It makes a mess so carve where you don't mind tiny foam particles.) If the terrain is pretty flat or you really want to stick with a plywood substrate, try a simple mix of torn up Kleenex tissue and white glue. Let the glue dry and then apply your wet materials on top of it. The dry Kleenex/glue should provide a solid layer of protection for the wood and also a good rough surface for adhesion of the Celluclay. I just recently had some very good results with the Kleenex method and tile grout. This is done on a base of 2" pink foam. The old asphalt road is Spackle smoothed down with a damp sponge before the Spackle had dried.  I forgot to photo the Kleenex, but it's under the grout. 
_________________ "Consult the Book of Armaments!"
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| Tue Apr 03, 2012 7:16 pm |
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David Peno
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2011 1:33 pm Posts: 43 Location: Centreville,VA USA
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 Re: Help needed on ground work
I actually did try and use spackle on a test piece, it warped a bit but not too bad. The problem I had was making the spackle look good, it came out looking to smooth, I guess I need to find a way to texture it after it dries a bit but not fully.
I also like the foam base idea, might have to try that as well with the celluclay. I could put the tissue and glue mixture on the foam to stiffen it up if needed. I like the celluclay's ability to take track marks and other ground features and since I have some I will more than likely try that but seal the wood first with poly or paint.
Dave
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| Wed Apr 04, 2012 3:56 pm |
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Matt Parvis
Site Contributor
Joined: Sat May 16, 2009 7:11 pm Posts: 3150 Location: Due north of Washington DC in Maryland
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 Re: Help needed on ground work
David, on a separate note, any plan to attend Model Classic in Fairfax?
Matt
_________________ We won't bring the muskets, we won't cause the pain, But we're good for some headaches, and tough to clean stains.
"Modern Pirates" by Barleyjuice
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| Wed Apr 04, 2012 8:17 pm |
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